Forums

by BeeJay >> Thu, 29 Jun 2000 23:31:06 GMT

I know, what's a keyboard junkie doing using the mouse.....

How would people feel about a drag operation in the JADE Painter only moving the control in question (and any other selected controls) if the control you were over top of or within the bounds of was currently selected.

Currently:

1) Suppose your mouse is within a frame or a groupbox and the groupbox is not currently selected.
2) You mouseDown and drag.

At the moment the JADE Painter will immediately start to move the groupbox.

My suggestion would be it would paint the selection rectangle while you drag the mouse as though you were not in the groupbox and when you release the mouse all controls that you selected or partly selected, excluding the parent control itself unless you actually passed beyond the boundary of that control, would then be selected. If you were using the shift key at the same time then any previously selected controls would also stay selected as per normal.

The only downside to this would be if you want to reposition the parent you would first need to click the control to select it and then mouseDown and drag to the new desired position or reposition with the keyboard as desired.

Personally I wouldn't consider this a downside for the benefit of easily being able to select all controls within a given parent control but I thought I'd see what the rest of you think before sending an NFS to JADE Support.

Let me know your thoughts.

BeeJay.

by Craig Shearer >> Fri, 30 Jun 2000 0:01:37 GMT

Hi "BeeJay"

It took me a while to work out what you're suggesting... but I agree. The problem at present is that you can't select multiple controls by drawing a rectangle when those controls are on top of another control because the Painter's behaviour is to move a control as soon as you mouse down and drag on it. This has frustrated me for ages!

So, I agree this is a good suggestion.

Craig.

by Kevin R. Luck >> Fri, 30 Jun 2000 0:24:11 GMT

I'm definitely in favour of this.

k

by BeeJay >> Fri, 30 Jun 2000 2:32:45 GMT

I've submitted an NFS to JADE Support.

BeeJay

by Craig Shearer >> Fri, 30 Jun 2000 3:19:24 GMT

Actually, now that I've thought about this a little more, I think the idea that you'd have to click on a control first before you could drag it would be a bad idea! Hey, I'm a user - it's my job to change my mind!

I'd propose the alternative of having to use a special key combination to specify outline mode, eg ctrl-shift click and drag to create the rectangle to outline controls. Not intuitive (in fact, idiomatic!), but once learned this would be simple and wouldn't then hamper the normal movement of controls about on the form. Of course, when controls weren't on a parent control, things could work the way they do now.

Craig.

by BeeJay >> Mon, 3 Jul 2000 0:30:59 GMT

It was specifically because it wouldn't be intuitive that I wanted the control to be selected in order to be able to drag it and if not selected to start processing a "selection rectangle" operation. This very quickly becomes intuitive and works more in line with other painters which is why I suggested it.

Besides, shit + mouseDown and ctrl+mouseDown already have meaning so adding a ctrl+shift+mouseDown might add too much confusion.

Having to click a control before you could move it will not to me have much negative impact at all as you're being more precise about the action. This will also remove the accidental move that can be done currently when you're trying to shit+click multiple controls in the painter and happen to be still moving your mouse slightly at the time of clicking the next control you want to add to the selected controls.

BeeJay.

by Craig Shearer >> Mon, 3 Jul 2000 6:57:53 GMT

I can see that this could quickly turn into a religious argument (ah.... the kind I love!

It was specifically because it wouldn't be intuitive that I wanted the control to be selected in order to be able to drag it and if not selected to start processing a "selection rectangle" operation. This very quickly becomes intuitive and works more in line with other painters which is why I suggested it.

Ok... what other painters? How about a comparison with the most common painters, say from VB, Delphi, Visual C++, whatever.

The thing I do most often in the Painter, apart from painting new controls, is to move existing controls around the form. Now you want to add an extra mouse click so I can do this. I don't like that idea!

I would find it extremely valuable to be able to select multiple controls WITHOUT having to shit or control-click on them all individually. Therefore, in order to receive this extra benefit, I'm willing to put in commesurate effort to achieve this - I will willingly learn to hold down control AND shift while I drag a rectangle around the controls I want to select.

Besides, shit + mouseDown and ctrl+mouseDown already have meaning so adding a ctrl+shift+mouseDown might add too much confusion.

Having to click a control before you could move it will not to me have much negative impact at all as you're being more precise about the action. This will also remove the accidental move that can be done currently when you're trying to shit+click multiple controls in the painter and happen to be still moving your mouse slightly at the time of clicking the next control you want to add to the selected controls.

This is separate issue (and one that also needs addressing). This could be improved by having a "threshold" for drag operations - that is, you need to move your mouse a certain amount before it goes into "drag" mode. Say, 5 pixels before you start dragging.


Craig

by Carl Ranson >> Mon, 3 Jul 2000 21:23:05 GMT

I would find it extremely valuable to be able to select multiple controls WITHOUT having to shit or control-click on them all individually. Therefore,

^^^
You should see you doctor about this problem, Craig.

CR

by BeeJay >> Tue, 4 Jul 2000 21:42:28 GMT

Politics and religion are never good to discuss.

However, it would seem I'm in a minority here so I've requested JADE Support adjust the NFS.

Actually, I'm suggesting they make it a user configurable option whether to use Ctrl+Shift+"mouseDrag" to perform a selection and to have mouseDrag always start moving the control you were over or alternately that "mouseDrag" always performs a selection unless the control you were over was already selected.

If we can, why not keep us all happy.

Actually, I seem to find I seldom want to drag controls but rather select two (or more controls) and use the alignment tools or else select multiple controls and then use the arrow keys to move them all vertically without adjusting their horizontal position or vice versa. I seldom find myself want to select one control and move it but hey maybe I'm just weird.

BeeJay

by Wilfred Verkley >> Mon, 3 Jul 2000 2:10:42 GMT

I agree with Craig. Hey, im a software developer, im allowed to agree with other people sometimes!!!

The functionality that Kevin is trying to achieve would be very useful, but I disagree with the method. All the form designers (and most other object-based "drawing programs") implement click & drag on the same mouse-down. Having to do two mouse clicks to select and then move an object would be a pain to use.

A better way would be a control/alt/shift click&drag combination as Craig suggested. Borland Delphi already does this, and its a very handy and often used feature for forms with many levels of embedded controls.